TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW
WITH UF CRIMINOLOGY PROFESSOR:
DATE: February 4, 2010 TIME: 5:43 PM Eastern
I called the Professor and explained the situation to him.
He began explaining what he knew about ths situation, back then.
Of what I was able to get him to talk about, I got a sense of too much
emotional attachment to his subjects of research. In the case of Susan, you
could almost "hear" him beaming as he spoke about her, as if he was
enamored with her or something. It was very disconcerting. I began to feel
uncomfortable and was starting to wonder if this guy would be capable of
"helping' without getting emotionally involved and eventually reinitiating
contact with his "subjects" again and then sharing sensitive information
with them. I really didn't get any impression of "distancing" or
"non-involvement" in his researching. In fact, I got just the opposite
impression. I felt he had too much feeling involved, and that he was in fact
too close to do any intelligent, unnbiased researching. I felt like
he wanted to go back and MEET Susan and have a beer and if he's lucky, maybe
even get laid or something. Listen to the story that he relates in the
beginning. That's not a scientist doing research. It's a guy who left a
scene feeling like he might have a chance at a DATE, later, or something.
During the interview, all throughout his story, you could hear how enamored he
was with her. It was in his voice, which was happy in talking about
SHERMAN: Hey! Uh, is this Professor Hollinger? This is Todd Sherman. Uhm,
we emailed earlier?
HOLLINGER: Oh yah. You're the guy working on...uhm...the computer crime
SHERMAN: Yah, yah. Uhm, well...I don't know what you call "working on it", but I'm,
I'm sortuh trying to find out what happened. Yah. Uhm...a couple of the
people are kinda giving me a hard time and uh, one of them hacked into my
computer, last year and, I was kinda shocked to see these articles in there
showing a propensity to do exactly what he did to my server. So I was, like,
wondering...what was the deal back then? What happened? Uhh...I...from...
rumors I'm getting I gather that they had two-hundred-plus hours of community
service... They were convicted, I guess, but they had two...they got off
with two-hundred-plus hours of community service, something about their
computers were confiscated, and that's about as much as...I was able to find
out. But I haven't been able to find ANY articles...any other information
other than those...those two articles in the Gainesville Sun. Now there's been,
like, no follow-up on it or anything. So uh...
HOLLINGER: Well I...actually wrote, uh, something about it in an article that I
published, uh, ten years ago, uh, and uh...I have to leave in a few minutes to
pick up my dad, but ah, the short, ahm, skinny of it is that...ahm...I was
going to a restaurant, ahm, a Burger King, off campus, on a regular basis with
a friend of mine, and I'd got to know the Manager - a woman - named
SHERMAN: (uncomfortable chuckle)
HOLLINGER: You know Susan?
SHERMAN: ...Tipton. Yes.
SHERMAN: Yah, they're married, now.
HOLLINGER: Okay. ...Annnd ahm, you know, I was talking to her about this case,
and she says 'Well, uhm, that's, that's my boyfriend that was involved.'
And uhm, so...you know, she explained to me what they had done, which
was essentially take over, ahh, the IFAS computer system - a Unix-based
computer system - uhh, here on campus. And ahm, and, it turns out that the,
uh...kinda funny story, I mea...in many ways, because, uh, the University, you
know hadn't even changed the, the Unix password on the main, on this, uh, on
this mainframe. And, it was still...I think they still left the, the default,
like 'secret' or whatever the default was. So, uhh, there, there are
two Unix systems on campus; and, and one was for student use; and the other was
for...ee-yah...it...to...for food and agricultural sciences. Uhm...I...and so
they...ahm, apparently...saw this...kinda like a car just sitting there with
keys in it; and the student system was all backed up...you know,
and...you know, slow turnarounds and, and here was this similar system that
wasn't being used. So, once they got, you know, Master Password status,
they started giving...out...passwords...to their friends. And, ahm, (softly
chuckles) and and, this is the funny part. They ahm, they, they started using
Russian, pa...ahh, usernames. And, you know like Lennon and Trovski, and I
don't know exactly, but they were all, they were all Russian names.
And the University, you know, called the States Attorneys Office and
thought that the Russians had taken over their computer. And uhh, at first I
didn't think that there was any way I mean that this could even be
logical. But apparently on this system, ahh, was a fairly
i-impressive piece of proprietary software that the University owned that
allowed uhm, ahh, agricultural, ahm, growers to predict yields...crop
yields, and this was at the time when the Russians, ahh, were having a large
problem with their...wheat and corn production. And so it, it sounded logical
that possibly,the Russians could have, you know, cracked into
their system. But, at the time, the Director of I...IFAS was a guy named Don
Poucher, who was, uh, a real technophobe, uh, he really didn't know much about
his own computer system, but he was pretty pissed, and so he demanded, uh,
the States Attorneys I think get...the young man I think it's...or I think the
Prosecutor's name was Clark, but I'm not sure about that. Annd, and so they,
you know, wanted to prosecute it. They wanted the case prosecuted to the
fullest extent. Well, I went, I want...to...I went over there to the Burger
King one day, and Susan said, you know, they, they confiscated...they, they
came with a...search warrant. They took all of our computers. They
took all of our modems. They took everything, annd, they never...gave
it...BACK! Ahm, and they just, you know, kept it. Ahm, and so, you know they
were...you know...pretty pissed off. So it kind of led to an article that I
wrote, ahm, which, and some interviews that I did, with other computer
science students. You know, these were pretty high level students. They were
taking assembly language, and COBOL, and pretty high level languages at the
time. And so, I started interviewing...them, and also, I
didn't get...very far...with them. But I interviewed some...cuz' they...they
were not allowed to talk about the case at the time. Ahm, but I started
interviewing students who were in their classes, and, and and the whole idea
was to try to say, were...you know, were these students as they were
being portrayed, as, as, you know "menace to society" and "substantially
different"...eh, you know. Sort of the "hacker versus cracker", ah, debate
which constantly goes on in, in computer crime, you know. ..."Malicious
behavior" as opposed to, you know just...you know..."browsing". And uh,
it turns out that, you know, there wasn't much malicious that they
were up to. It was just a matter of...Jeezus! You know... The University
had this [chuckling] computer and it was just sittin' there, and
nobody was usin' it, so they were gonna use it. And uh,
so...y' y'know, that's, that's about...you know, where I left it. And uh...
Just kind of an interesting sidebar, and, and...and uh, with the...Russian
angle to it, and, and the fear that the University had that somehow the
Soviet Union had taken over its, its computer system.
SHERMAN: (chuckling in mock shock)
HOLLINGER: But uh, but I haven't, I haven't talked to any of them
in...since then, and I don't know much about, you know, what's happened
to them, uh, uh, since the case was finished. All I do know is that, uhm,
Susan lost her job as a result of it and ahhm...she ah, was, uh they were
really irritated that, you know, that after the case...after they'd
served their time and, and done their community service and they...it was a
deferrred prosecution, so there was no real, you know...real
record. I mean they didn't really...prosecute them. You know?
They just had this...as long as they did the...as long as they did their
community service, there would be no charges formally filed... And they
did all that and they still didn't get the...computers
back. And uh, so, I think they were pretty upset about...the way it all
turned out. And that's about all...that's about where...where I left it.
And that was...uhh...a long time ago.
SHERMAN: So they don't have any records online of what happened during the
HOLLINGER: Well...the...you know...somebody, I guess, in the States Attorney's
Office might. Ahhm, but...you know, other than...wha-what I read in the
Gainesville Sun, and what Susan told me and...and what I was able tuh...you
know, gather from...informal scuttlebut at the University...ahhm...the
University...was pretty embarassed by the whole thing and didn't wanna talk
about it. So, it was...you know...particularly when, you know it...the
Russian thing had sortuh...got out. And, and...Don Poucher
kinda went nuts, you know, thinking that the Soviets had...[mocking
intonation] ..."those spies" had infiltrated his computer system.
SHERMAN: (mock chuckling) Yah, I forget the name of the other guy; but yah,
I heard that uh...uhm...one of the...(*sigh!*)...What was his name? Somebody
told me that he was very adamant about prosecuting them. Can't remember his
name. It was a little short last name. Uhm but...Anyway!... Alright,
SHERMAN: ...So, you don't know anyplace I cold go online or anything to
research it or anything like that? That's probably...
HOLLINGER: Well, I'm gonna...I..e...e...e...I, I'm...working at home, today,
and I...don't have my fi...my computer files...
HOLLINGER: ...Ahh, I've written, actually, ahh, a book, uhh, on, on computer
crime, and a number of articles...since that time. And uhm, the book is called
Crime, Deviance and the Computer...ahm...and...it, uhm...has...some
material, ahh, on...other...issues...mainly, you know...the, the evolution of
the computer crime statutes...ah... See Florida was the first state to
have any computer crime statutes. Ahm, and uh...it was...and, and that
was...that's kind of a funny story, too. It had to do with the dog
track in Hialeah. Uhh, and some guys that had cracked in to...generating the
winning trifecta tickets for every race. And then it would erase itself. It
was a, you know, classic, uh, you know, little uh...you know "virus"...
SHERMAN: That sounds familiar, vaguely.
HOLLINGER: ...And uh, and so, you know, we in Florida, sort of
started the computer crime criminalization process. Uh, and uh, Bill Nelson -
uhh...as they call him here, Bill, Bill Nelson, The Science Guy - uhm, you
know, was our...was our...Representative...uh, he had...he's a Representative
in the State legislature. And he brought a friend of his in, who you may have
heard of, Don Parker, who has written, you know, probably some of the
first books on computer crime. Ahm...annd Don Parker from Stanford
Research Institute came in, and lec...lectured to the State legislature and
then about 15 minutes later they had a computer crime statute. And so, we were
the first state in the Union - believe it or not - and one of the...least
developed in computers, but...we had our first statute. And it was
largely due to this, you know, fear that, that uhh, that these teenage
hackers were taking over the world. And uhm, and so we passed the statute.
And then Nelson went on to Congress, ahh, to represent the State, and now
he's our senior Senator. And so, he, you know, pushed through a lot of the
computer crimes, uh, legislations, both here and our state, and also around
the country, and then nationally, as well. So that's kind of an interesting
little story, uh, there as well...as, as far as how...states got these computer
crimes statutes. Because they're...from a legal standpoint, they're very
unusual, because they created these whole separate statutes. Instead of
revising the law of property thefts, which is what usually happens when new
technologies like automobiles and things like that come along, uh, they
created this whole separate chapter of, of crime, uhm, which is, uh, legally,
quite unusual. So...
HOLLINGER: Uhm...A colleague and I...wrote an article just on that issue, of,
of sort of the evolution of computer crime...laws, uh, arguing that, you
know, it was...partly, uhm, you know, of uh...you know a real problem, and,
and partly it was...you know, it was a witch hunt. Uhm, and, politicians were
gettin' lots of publicity, you know, passing laws they knew nothing about,
and, and they're (unintelligible) computer literate. Ahm, and so, and
that...you know, came to a head in 1983...with the movie War Games, and,
and the uh, 414 hackers.
Uhm, both of, both of those events took place in the Summer of 1983, and that's
why we have federal computer crimes statutes.
SHERMAN: Yah, I've had to deal with similar stuff like that when they were
going over this new craze over uh, "digital" - the new, the new, uh digital
systems that they were putting up for communications and stuff like that. I
also happen to run the web page called North
Central Florida Area Scannist's Page, and uh, we'd up to that point had
no problem getting things like Ten Codes, J-Codes, or whatever, and putting
them up on the web, publishing them. And then this new thing comes along
called "trunking", and then combine that with "digital", and the fact that
now normal scanner's going to be able to, uh, intercept these digital
commuications...and that was kind of a problem, uhm, because people were
going to have to spend anywhere's from uh, oh, I dunno...what was it back
then?...seven- to nine-hundred dollars for a card to add to their scanners so
that they could intercept digital. And GRU was going around trying to tell
everybody that 1) the trunking codes were "proprietary" - which is B.S.
They were proprietary but they belonged to Motorola, and there's
never been any instances of Motorola keeping the trunking codes from the
public. And GRU tried to use that...they locked those things up in a safe and
tried to keep them away from me and other people from publishing them and stuff
like that. But that didn't work and it ended up getting published anyway.
And they tried to say that "digital" was the same as "encryption", and they
tried to sell that to, to the local government like that - like digital was the
SAME as encryption and THAT afforded police and fire rescue...
SHERMAN (continuing): ...and everybody "privacy" - which it doesn't.
The FCC defines "digital" as a "mode", like Morse code or
SHERMAN: ...There's no...there's no..."privacy" in there.
SHERMAN: ...It's just another mode. Uh, the GRU lawyer, I believe he was a
guy who was involved with real estate and not "Communications
Law". He was going around telling the newspapers that uh,
well...basically what I just told you, and of course it was
all...false...just, just...talk to, to make everybody...to shut everybody up, I
guess. But they didn't like me (laughing) for a while, because I was
challenging them on it.
HOLLINGER: You're...you're a Gainesville resident, as well?
SHERMAN: Yah. You know I understand how changes can cause new laws...
HOLLINGER: Lemme see what I can find in my notes and...uh, see if I can..get
you anything...more specific...
HOLLINGER: ...and I'll get back to you on it.
SHERMAN: Yah. Okay, 'cuz well...I mean, honestly, I'll tell you this much.
The BAD news of it is...is that uhm, not Susan, but this husband, "Jeff", has
been involved in causing me a lot of trouble over the years, uhm...
SHERMAN: ...And most recently, last year, was a hacking into my "EMWIN"
server. "EMWIN" is a...well bacially, our server downloaded - it's a complete
ground station. We downloaded a number of weather bulletins from a satellite
and we redistribute them to the public for free...
HOLLINGER: Uh huh.
SHERMAN: ...to pagers, cellphones, email...stuff like that. One day I
remoted in to it because it... Well, it was all up on top of the Shands Dental
Science Building. There's a parking lot across the street, and they want
three or whatever bucks to go park, and it's a pain in the butt that costs me
money. So I installed, uh, some remote access software for it. I
remoted in about 12:30 one night and, uh, there was Jeff...(scoff)...
controlling my mouse!...online!
HOLLINGER: Uh huh.
SHERMAN: ...He was going through DOS. He was going through logs...logs which
contained email addresses, telephone numbers, names...
SHERMAN: ...That's "PII" information.
SHERMAN: ...And uh...
HOLLINGER: He never got...He never got the message, I guess. Did he?
SHERMAN: Well no... Huh? I guess not. That's why it shocked me when I saw
these articles. I was like...the word "propensity"...came into my mind.
Uhh...there this was, sittin, there in Google all this time, but, the ONLY
way that you can find it is to type in his FULL name. It doesn't pop up any
other way. And that was really odd. Susan doesn't even pop up for...that
article doesn't pop up at all for her at all.
What I was referring to was that...Susan's name is in
that article just as her husband's name is in there...and three other people,
too. Her husband's full name would pull up this article when entered into
Google. Her's...would not. It's as if she went in there some long
time ago and manually fudged with Google to prevent that. And in
typical psychopath fashion of self-concern and self-preservation and to hell
with everybody else...even my companions...she did nothing for Jeff's.
...Until I wrote my blog, which called attention to it. It was
pretty amazing. For a good while, you could enter "Jeffrey Donald Capehart"
and the link to the Sun article archive popped up right at the top. I
mean RIGHT at the very tippy top. THEN I started noticing some odd things in
my IP logs. People were doing repetative keyword searches. They'd use the
samae keyword search phrase over and over and over in Google, as if..."testing"
something. Then the link began to disappear. But then, at night, it would
come BACK. It was as if they could only control it for a short amount of time,
like perhaps...12 hours at a time, and then it would pop back up in pole
position after hours. ...Like, after 9pm, or after 11pm...like that. So when
it appeared in pole position agian I made sure to videotape it so as to prove
that it WAS appearing in first position. Then one day, after noting more
repetative keyword phrases being used...it suddenly disappeared altogether.
It was very obvious that someone was definitely working on keyword
search phrases to try and force them to stop working to pull that link
up. In fact, it was downright scary to actually watch happen. And to this
day, whenever Google gets in accused in the news for "manipulating" it's search
results, and they DENY it...I shake my head, because (sigh)...I know
better. ...Personally. I've watched it happen with my own eyes, almost
live. I even have the logs to prove that it happened...from an outside,
third party company which prevents me from being able to "affect" the log
outcome beyond just deleting the account entirely and no more.
SHERMAN: Ahm...but... Yah, so, anyway, he...they...long story short, I ended
up...I called the cops, and uh, UPD basically
Keystone Copped" the whole thing.
SHERMAN: They went to him and asked HIM all the information about the computers,
and the server system, and stuff like that, 'cuz it belonged to the Gator
Amateur Radio Club...
NOTE: GARC had computers of it's own, and someone named Ray
Strubinger was then supposedly in control of all of them, and of their
security. Jeff Cepehart had sufficient knowledge to run things but he was
not then in charge of that. But Ray had graduated and was employed in some
other state, and GARC hadn't yet transferred control to anyone else, yet. Ray
was still designated as the one in charge at the time of the investigation, but
The AC-EMWIN server and equipment was located in the same fenced-in cage room
as the GARC computers and equipment, but was not owned or operated by GARC. It
was owned by me and Alachua County SKYWARN. GARC...no, actually Physical
Plant Division, had allowed us both coincidental placement there.
Important to note is that the deal for installation was supposed to be made
between myself/Alachua County SKYWARN, and PPD. I made that clear to
Jeff on MANY occasions. I remember that. I remember bitching that I didn't
want to end up in any situation where after some falling out or something,
somebody else tried to take control, or something. (Heh!) YEARS later, after
Jeff hacked into the machine and I called to cops to investigate, it became
apparent that Jeff had not handled things in the manner that was
assigned to him at the time. He had apparently misrepresented some
things to PPD. Jeff apparently had decided that it would be easier to
tell PPD that the equipment belonged to GARC and that it was with
GARC that PPD would be working with. And Jeff did not tell me about
it. PPD thought the deal was going through with GARC. And I was left to
believe that ACS was the other party involved with PPD. When the Faculty
Advisor of GARC gave me at first a hard time about getting the equipment back
in 2009, and he tried to say that the deal had been between PPD and GARC, and
that anything placed upon the roof or into UF locations became the automatic
property of UF, defacto, I actually had to threaten a lawsuit to
stop THAT. I had to tell him that I would demand ANY paperwork with my
signature upon it whereupon I acknowledged any knowledge or acceptance
of that idea, or that anyone had told me of it. I also demanded proof that
Capehart had acted properly in all ways and that he had duly and properly let
both parties know exactly what was going on at all times - with signed pieces
of paper to prove it. I threatened to contact UF and complain that Jeff had
acted in a manner inappropriate, signing false arrangements with the Physical
Plant Division and making false statements of ownershipin the name of the Gator
Amateur Radio Club, which did not own the equipment to be placed upon the
rooftop of the Dental Science Building, and misrepresenting intentions and
party affiliations. I threatened to file criminal charges against Jeff for
that, and to sue the Gator Amateur Radio Club. That put a stop to that
right quick. But it must have been very confusing for PPD, too, who had
apparently been kept in the dark by Jeff just as I had been. Whenever they and
I conversed on the phone, or exchanged emails, they must have thought that I
was representing GARC, while I thought they realized that they were
talking to Alachua County SKYWARN. Misinformation and misdirection is a
typical Capehart M.O., used to help him get what he wants. ...And
trouble often follows Jeff. Jeff Capehart is trouble. Sometimes
when Jeff gets involved, a LOT of people suddenly become responsible for
somethign that didn't work as he advertised, or you end up being the one person
having to take total control of the project because no one else wanted to help
you. He ALWAYS has a great idea and he'll give you a very diffficult time if
you don't let him get his way. But half the time, you're left holding the
bag for something that broke, or in some sort of trouble. Make any deals with
him, and you'll quickly learn that you always have to have your
management hat on. You MUST ask the deeper questions about every idea that
Jeff comes up with. (This also assumes you know enough to ASK all of the
proper questions.) Most of the time, I was always able to catch Jeff in
leaving something important out. But not always. I got pretty good at it,
though; and it pissed him off. He used to think me easy mark...and I actually
was - way back in the "Before Time". Then I learned. He's very
excellent at speaking very convincingly, and making even the experts think he
knows what he's talking about and to carry through with an idea. But having
the repeated experience with Jeff that to engage in some project with him is to
often end up with an idea that never quite pans out in the end, and then left
holding the bag, and actually BLAMED when somehing fails, AND by Jeff for
carrying OUT his ideas (e.g., "I gave you the idea and I pushed to the point
of being a royal pain in the ass, yes; but didn't exactly hold a GUN to your
HEAD, you know!"...I've learned not to trust him to be completely
responsible. And as I said, most of the time, I'd catch him. But not always.
In the end, I canned him from his Asst. Coordinator status some two years
before the hacking event (...For being irresponsible and for fighting me once
too often - he just canont take "no" for an answer, often doing end runs
around me to get his way. And if he couldn't get his way, he would deliberately
attempt to sabotage my relationship with important associative contacts.) At a
later point he was told to stay away from me or I would get a restraining
order and call the police on him. He never took me seriously, and continually
tried to reinitiate contact, ignoring my demand to stay away. No contact, this
guy, means "Wait two weeks/three months until he 'cools down', and then try
again." ...Typical "stalker" type of reaction to a very serious situation.
...Almost...almost like a an ex LOVER who had been told to stay away, now that
I think about it. He'd just...keep popping up. Anyway, and at the time
that he had hacked into the computer, he was under that rule. So the hacking
was not by any consent in any way. As WELL...
It's also important to note that Jeff was NOT at the time on the admin of the
computer system, and Dr. Garlitz placing him (and another man) in charge -
where he was being investigated - was not appropriate and placed
Jeff in a position then to control and destroy evidence, and to push the
investigating cops in any wrong direction that he wanted.
SHERMAN: ...Uhm...and...he said that they didn't have any way of recording in
the logs, so there's no way they can tell what IP address logged in at the
time of the hacking. ...Which I think is B.S.. He told the officers,
uhh, that he was not involved in the hacking...which was a lie.
And then uhh...skipping some...I ended up getting kicked off the roof because
they saw me as...complaining about Jeff, they saw ME as the problem. Not
SHERMAN: The Faculty Advisor vouched for Jeff - because he volunteers
a lot for public service in a lot of things, which is kinda...if you knew how
MUCH public service this man volunteered for you'd think it was suspicious.
But anyway, while I was up on the rooftop, removing the equipment - we were
the only two that were allowed to be up on the rooftop because we were the
only people who had taken the...Environmental Health & Safety-required
training on climbing and rooftop safety. So I had to remove everything
WITH...HIM...ALL ALONE. I'm up there, you know, however many stories up -
with him, alone, taking down satellite dishes. And he's BRAGGING TO ME,
about how it WAS him who'd hacked in. And I asked him "WHY?!", and he
said "BECAUSE YOU PISSED ME OFF!!! You weren't DOING what I WANTED!"
You know, and...
HOLLINGER: That's wild.
SHERMAN: ...Yah. And then uh, not only THAT, but he even CUT ME OFF to tell
me four of the passwords that I'd rotated through over a
two year period, uhh, on both the EMWIN software and on the
HOLLINGER: Umm hmm.
(Do you know what it's like to be standing near a
railing on a rooftop some 163 feet up in the air while some guy is grinning
at you while describing that stuff to you? ...To realize that all this time,
some guy who had pretended to be your friend was actually your worst
enemy and you never knew it?)
SHERMAN: And he said that he had gotten them...from...I dunno, it
doesn't make sense to me. He said he got em from the Windows
registry. But if I understand...I'm not too up on it, but I
think... He must have used some other additional software to crack it
because I think you can get the...you can get the password, but it's
encrypted. You have to unencrypt it.
HOLLINGER: Um hmm.
SHERMAN: So, he must have used some sort of software in addition to
getting it out of the Windows registry...to crack it. But uh, yah.
So, UPD...I don't trust them any more. Uhm, I can't get them to talk to me
publicly about, uh, what the Faculty Advisor said about Jeff, or me.
HOLLINGER: Who was the Faculty Advisor?
SHERMAN: Uh...Dr. Jay Garlitz. Uhm, he's uhm...with the Dental
HOLLINGER: Uh huh.
SHERMAN: He's a dentist. Uhm...but yah...and then, there was an incident with
GPD before that where I'd filed a harassment complaint against two people
who... (I never got to finish that sentence with him.)
SHERMAN: I know a Carl Stouffer. He's a ham operator.
HOLLINGER: Yah, I...I think his son, Mike...
SHERMAN: I haven't seen him in a while, though. Boy, it's been
a long time.
HOLLINGER: He works on campus.
SHERMAN: Yah. But the down...the down side of all this is that
Jeff...knows...anyone and everyone who is important. And, he works in
a job...he works at the Office of Inspector General which...I'm starting to
learn...if you wanna...if you're a hacker and you want to be in
the most important place that matters, I think the Office of
Inspector General - where IT security is happening right there - that's where
you wanna be.
SHERMAN: Uhm, and then now I'm getting these paranoid thoughts
like...if he works there, is this man reading my emails and
SHERMAN: Does he have the capability to sniff that? And if so, how
does he do it? Do they have to keep a....Does...OIG have that
capability? Are they the people who investigate this kind of
HOLLINGER: Uh, is the Office of Inspector General...the State office?
...or is it...
SHERMAN: ...It's in Tigert Hall.
HOLLINGER: So it's the University office.
SHERMAN: It's the University office...the UF Office of Inspector
HOLLINGER: I see.
SHERMAN: ...in Tigert Hall. And he also works, uh...he's tied
with..."auditing"...auditing of something. I forget what it was. Yah. Some
sort of auditing office.
HOLLINGER: ...And Jeff's last name was what?
SHERMAN: ...Capehart. ...C-A-P-E-H-A-R-T.
SHERMAN: Yah. ..."Jeffrey Donald Capehart". That's how I
found it. I, I just...dec...decided to type in his full name
instead of his regular name...
SHERMAN: ...I added "Donald" in the middle and there it was, right at
the TOP!...first entry in Google. And I was like "WOW!" (sigh)
(pause) I was like, wow, he just hacked into my computer, and then there's this
article showing him doing the same thing...twenty years
ago!...Twenty-somethin' years ago.
SHERMAN: So now I'm mad. I mean, it's like, I can't, I can't get
him for the hacking of the server because...Keystone...I'm sorry, I mean
UPD...screwed it up. (chuckling)
HOLLINGER: Yah well, they, they...executed a search warrant, I think,
originally on, on the...
SHERMAN: ...on that? Yah, yah. I noticed that. UPD was the
HOLLINGER: ...on, on the initial case. And they didn't, and they were
nobody...nobody was trained. They just sort of unplugged everything and just
yanked it out of the wall.
SHERMAN: (chuckling) Yah.
HOLLINGER: They didn't even know how to execute search warrants on computers.
SHERMAN: I recently set up sort...I've gotten smarter with computers and I've
recently been setting up traps for Jeff, and I've been finding out some
really weird things. I think he's got some sort of setup going where
he's got remote access...I think he's actually giving me - without him knowing
it - ahm, he's given me IP addresses that go to hospitals on campus, hospitals
in Jacksonville, ah, there's, there's a computer in the University...I'm
sorry...in the uhm, Office of Emergency Management...that I think he's been
remoting into to try and thwart IP blocks that I've got to keep him away
from some of my web pages.
SHERMAN: ...And not that I care that he access my web pages, but those blocks
were put up on purpose to try and sniff these things out from him
because I've suspected that he's been watching, ahm, for a while. Ahm,
but...it's, it's not the access to the web pages that is the problem.
What I'm concerned about is that this...the way that this man
is, is using other government, and State, and University systems,
apparently, to access me. It's kinda scary that he's got that
kind of power.
HOLLINGER: Do you know who Chuck Frasier is?
SHERMAN: ...Chuck Fra...uhh... That sounds very familiar.
HOLLINGER: He's Chief...ahhhh, ahh...IT Officer for the University.
SHERMAN: Uhhhh, which he probably knows. I guarantee, if he has, if anybody
has anything to do with IT security, I'm sure Jeff is very...
(I was going to say "...very close with those kinds of
people." But he'd cut me off, again.)
HOLLINGER: ...He's a Criminologist, and a good friend of mine; and he
might be able to answer some of your questions about...who Capehart
HOLLINGER: ...And maybe I'll...do some background...investigation of my
own, just to see if I can figure out...how much power he really has.
SHERMAN: Yah, I'm really scared of this guy. I mean, he's been
bothering me for years. He's kinda like...one of those...people who...
HOLLINGER: ...Kevin Mitnick?
SHERMAN: (pause) ...That sounds uh...he's a cop, isn't he?
HOLLINGER: He's...he's...he's the most infamous of the dark-side faction of
SHERMAN: Oh! You're comparing him to...! (laughing)
HOLLINGER: Yah! Yah!
SHERMAN: Okay! (chuckling)
HOLLINGER: Which reminds me... Because, you know, Kevin used to get
pissed at people, and he'd, and he'd...you know...
...ruin, ruin their credit histories and, you know and...shut...
SHERMAN: Well, he wouldn't go that far, but...
HOLLINGER: ...shut down their cell phones, and, you know...do all sorts
of malicious kind of actions.
SHERMAN: He's not gone that far, but he's gone as far as to make
Emergency Management scared of me, and the
Weather Service scared of me... I'm...I, I founded a program called
"Alachua County SKYWARN", uh,
that's just, basically, it's "storm spotters". You look up. You see
something. You, you report it. You pick up a cellphone. That's basically it.
And uh, he made...he, he made some people in Emergency Management scared of me.
He made some people in the Weather Service scared of me. If I don't do
what Jeff wants, Jeff gets angry...and he tries to do end runs
around me and get...my...friends...even.
You know, he'll go to people he doesn't even know. ...People he knows
are my friends, and he'll try to convince them to convince me of
the errors of my ways, and stuff. It's just...weird. He'll write
then emails and stuff, and he
doesn't even know them. He's written emails to my best
friends...he doesn't even know them...and, and, and trying to
convince my friends to send me these emails back from Jeff, and, they'll be
like "Do you know who this guy is? It's like, this is
weird. He's trying to convince me to...It sounds like he's trying to
convince me that you're stupid or something." You know? I mean uh...and,
ahm, he's done this with people in Emergency Management and stuff and he's
very convincing. He's got a very...ah...charismatic kind of
personality; and everybody believes him. He's friends with uhh...with people in
fire/rescue, emergency management, uhh UF uhh IT security, uh, ah, anybody who
is important, he knows. And, and...so I don't know...I've uh, he's
already...convinced a cop in GPD that I was picking on some
people, and that cop actually sabotaged a, a,
a harassment case that I had filed.
SHERMAN: At the same time, Jeff is telling me personal...not
personal, but...private details about my case. You know...uh, uh,
uhhh...details he shouldn't know about the case. Like "Did you talk
to Dave Donnelly? Did you Chief...talk to Chief May? Did you say this about
Chief May, or this about Chie...Dave Donnelly? Did you...did you write a
spread uh...the officer a stack of emails this thick? Did they say this? Did
they say that? And I'm like, "Jeff! Where are you getting this
SHERMAN: Turns out, the cop was cooperating with the people that I had
filed the complaint against. ...And those people were talking to Jeff.
...And Jeff's coming back to me...and rather than going to
IAD and complaining about it...telling them about it, he's
using...he's hitting me with it, using it like some sort of a
SHERMAN: You know, I mean, that's the way this guy is. Yah, so
I guess "Mitnick" in a way; but not as...violent as in...hacking and,
you know, cutting off my cellphones. But no, but... (breath) I mean
yah...he uses...he, he, he, he, he's into torturing me.
SHERMAN: I am inferior, and he likes to try and prove that
I'm...I'm stupid and not near as smart as him. But
recently, I've been putting these, uh, IP blocks up just to sort of torture
him and, and, but mostly to try and pull out (breath) these IP
addresses that I've been gathering from him, and I, I pulled up about
forty of 'em or so, and it's kinda scary. I, I, I, I'm wondering
if he's actually mapping out for me the entire Office of Inspector
General. I mean, when I blocked out one IP address and he goes to the
next, is...is he going to the next...desk...down? Is he
borrowing a friend's desk? Do they know about it? (breath) I'm
seeing all sorts of weird stuff like this and I was just thinking I, I
need to go to the State Attorney's Office about it or something...or
somebody. But I don't want to go to UPD because they'll screw it
up. I don't want to go to GPD because they, they don't take it seriously.
SHERMAN: ...And...I dunno. (sigh) So I'm...
HOLLINGER: Lemme ask around...uhm...
HOLLINGER: ...with my friend, ahm, Frasier, because...he's the
[Vice President up here?] who's supposed to be in charge of...of the security
of, of the information at the University and, if he...he might know something.
SHERMAN: I have logs, too... Uhh, I, I have installed counters on
all of my web pages and...I remind you...I mean...as you've
described this to me...it's not the web page access that I'm
concerned about. It's just...I'm trying to find out why is this
guy trying to HIDE...(breath)...his...searches of my web pages by
(using alternate IPs?)...
( He interrupted me again and missed the last three
HOLLINGER: Welll...when Mitnick...uh, when Kevin Mitnick was...uhm, was
cracking into computers at the University of California, uhhh, there was
a...at the astronomy department, and there was a graduate student
named "Shugotomi" [I think he means Tsutomu Shimomura.
-Todd] who, who would set up exactly the same kind of
trap...that eventually brought down Kevin Mitnick.
HOLLINGER: It's a very similar kind of story.
SHERMAN: ...His pride is gonna bring him down.
HOLLINGER: Yah. Well, I've gotta run...
SHERMAN: Okay. I didn't mean to hold you.
HOLLINGER: ...but uh, I'll...and, and...your name again is?...
SHERMAN: "Todd." "T-O-D-D," and the last name is
"Sherman"..."S-H-E-R-M-A-N." ...Like the tank that was supposed to go
crashing into the waves in World War 2 but they leaked, I'm
HOLLINGER: Yah. ...Okay, well I will, uh, see what I can find out,
HOLLINGER: ...and get back to you.
SHERMAN: Okay, well I appreciate it, Richard. Thanks very much.