DATE: February 4, 2010
TIME: 5:43 PM Eastern

I called the Professor and explained the situation to him. He began explaining what he knew about ths situation, back then.

Of what I was able to get him to talk about, I got a sense of too much emotional attachment to his subjects of research. In the case of Susan, you could almost "hear" him beaming as he spoke about her, as if he was enamored with her or something. It was very disconcerting. I began to feel uncomfortable and was starting to wonder if this guy would be capable of "helping' without getting emotionally involved and eventually reinitiating contact with his "subjects" again and then sharing sensitive information with them. I really didn't get any impression of "distancing" or "non-involvement" in his researching. In fact, I got just the opposite impression. I felt he had too much feeling involved, and that he was in fact too close to do any intelligent, unnbiased researching. I felt like he wanted to go back and MEET Susan and have a beer and if he's lucky, maybe even get laid or something. Listen to the story that he relates in the beginning. That's not a scientist doing research. It's a guy who left a scene feeling like he might have a chance at a DATE, later, or something. During the interview, all throughout his story, you could hear how enamored he was with her. It was in his voice, which was happy in talking about her...


HOLLINGER: Hollinger.

SHERMAN: Hey! Uh, is this Professor Hollinger? This is Todd Sherman. Uhm, we emailed earlier?

HOLLINGER: Oh yah. You're the guy working on...uhm...the computer crime story?

SHERMAN: Yah, yah. Uhm, well...I don't know what you call "working on it", but I'm, I'm sortuh trying to find out what happened. Yah. Uhm...a couple of the people are kinda giving me a hard time and uh, one of them hacked into my computer, last year and, I was kinda shocked to see these articles in there showing a propensity to do exactly what he did to my server. So I was, like, wondering...what was the deal back then? What happened? Uhh...I...from... rumors I'm getting I gather that they had two-hundred-plus hours of community service... They were convicted, I guess, but they had two...they got off with two-hundred-plus hours of community service, something about their computers were confiscated, and that's about as much as...I was able to find out. But I haven't been able to find ANY articles...any other information other than those...those two articles in the Gainesville Sun. Now there's been, like, no follow-up on it or anything. So uh...

HOLLINGER: Well I...actually wrote, uh, something about it in an article that I published, uh, ten years ago, uh, and uh...I have to leave in a few minutes to pick up my dad, but ah, the short, ahm, skinny of it is that...ahm...I was going to a restaurant, ahm, a Burger King, off campus, on a regular basis with a friend of mine, and I'd got to know the Manager - a woman - named SUSAN...

SHERMAN: (uncomfortable chuckle)

HOLLINGER: You know Susan?

SHERMAN: ...Tipton. Yes.


SHERMAN: Yah, they're married, now.

HOLLINGER: Okay. ...Annnd ahm, you know, I was talking to her about this case, and she says 'Well, uhm, that's, that's my boyfriend that was involved.' And uhm, know, she explained to me what they had done, which was essentially take over, ahh, the IFAS computer system - a Unix-based computer system - uhh, here on campus. And ahm, and, it turns out that the, uh...kinda funny story, I many ways, because, uh, the University, you know hadn't even changed the, the Unix password on the main, on this, uh, on this mainframe. And, it was still...I think they still left the, the default, like 'secret' or whatever the default was. So, uhh, there, there are two Unix systems on campus; and, and one was for student use; and the other was food and agricultural sciences. Uhm...I...and so they...ahm, apparently...saw this...kinda like a car just sitting there with keys in it; and the student system was all backed know, know, slow turnarounds and, and here was this similar system that wasn't being used. So, once they got, you know, Master Password status, they started their friends. And, ahm, (softly chuckles) and and, this is the funny part. They ahm, they, they started using Russian, pa...ahh, usernames. And, you know like Lennon and Trovski, and I don't know exactly, but they were all, they were all Russian names. And the University, you know, called the States Attorneys Office and thought that the Russians had taken over their computer. And uhh, at first I didn't think that there was any way I mean that this could even be logical. But apparently on this system, ahh, was a fairly i-impressive piece of proprietary software that the University owned that allowed uhm, ahh, agricultural, ahm, growers to predict yields...crop yields, and this was at the time when the Russians, ahh, were having a large problem with their...wheat and corn production. And so it, it sounded logical that possibly,the Russians could have, you know, cracked into their system. But, at the time, the Director of I...IFAS was a guy named Don Poucher, who was, uh, a real technophobe, uh, he really didn't know much about his own computer system, but he was pretty pissed, and so he demanded, uh, the States Attorneys I think get...the young man I think it's...or I think the Prosecutor's name was Clark, but I'm not sure about that. Annd, and so they, you know, wanted to prosecute it. They wanted the case prosecuted to the fullest extent. Well, I went, I went over there to the Burger King one day, and Susan said, you know, they, they confiscated...they, they came with warrant. They took all of our computers. They took all of our modems. They took everything, annd, they never...gave it...BACK! Ahm, and they just, you know, kept it. Ahm, and so, you know they know...pretty pissed off. So it kind of led to an article that I wrote, ahm, which, and some interviews that I did, with other computer science students. You know, these were pretty high level students. They were taking assembly language, and COBOL, and pretty high level languages at the time. And so, I started interviewing...them, and also, I didn't get...very far...with them. But I interviewed some...cuz' they...they were not allowed to talk about the case at the time. Ahm, but I started interviewing students who were in their classes, and, and and the whole idea was to try to say, know, were these students as they were being portrayed, as, as, you know "menace to society" and "substantially different", you know. Sort of the "hacker versus cracker", ah, debate which constantly goes on in, in computer crime, you know. ..."Malicious behavior" as opposed to, you know know..."browsing". And uh, it turns out that, you know, there wasn't much malicious that they were up to. It was just a matter of...Jeezus! You know... The University had this [chuckling] computer and it was just sittin' there, and nobody was usin' it, so they were gonna use it. And uh, so...y' y'know, that's, that's know, where I left it. And uh... Just kind of an interesting sidebar, and, and...and uh, with the...Russian angle to it, and, and the fear that the University had that somehow the Soviet Union had taken over its, its computer system.

SHERMAN: (chuckling in mock shock)

HOLLINGER: But uh, but I haven't, I haven't talked to any of them in...since then, and I don't know much about, you know, what's happened to them, uh, uh, since the case was finished. All I do know is that, uhm, Susan lost her job as a result of it and ahhm...she ah, was, uh they were really irritated that, you know, that after the case...after they'd served their time and, and done their community service and was a deferrred prosecution, so there was no real, you know...real record. I mean they didn't really...prosecute them. You know? They just had long as they did long as they did their community service, there would be no charges formally filed... And they did all that and they still didn't get the...computers back. And uh, so, I think they were pretty upset about...the way it all turned out. And that's about all...that's about where...where I left it. And that was...uhh...a long time ago.

SHERMAN: So they don't have any records online of what happened during the procedures?

HOLLINGER: know...somebody, I guess, in the States Attorney's Office might. Ahhm, know, other than...wha-what I read in the Gainesville Sun, and what Susan told me and...and what I was able know, gather from...informal scuttlebut at the University...ahhm...the University...was pretty embarassed by the whole thing and didn't wanna talk about it. So, it know...particularly when, you know it...the Russian thing had out. And, and...Don Poucher kinda went nuts, you know, thinking that the Soviets had...[mocking intonation] ..."those spies" had infiltrated his computer system. (*sigh!*)

SHERMAN: (mock chuckling) Yah, I forget the name of the other guy; but yah, I heard that of the...(*sigh!*)...What was his name? Somebody told me that he was very adamant about prosecuting them. Can't remember his name. It was a little short last name. Uhm but...Anyway!... Alright, so uhm...


SHERMAN: ...So, you don't know anyplace I cold go online or anything to research it or anything like that? That's probably...

HOLLINGER: Well, I'm gonna...I..e...e...e...I, I'm...working at home, today, and I...don't have my computer files...

SHERMAN: Right...

HOLLINGER: ...Ahh, I've written, actually, ahh, a book, uhh, on, on computer crime, and a number of articles...since that time. And uhm, the book is called Crime, Deviance and the, uhm...has...some material, ahh, on...other...issues...mainly, you know...the, the evolution of the computer crime statutes...ah... See Florida was the first state to have any computer crime statutes. Ahm, and was...and, and that was...that's kind of a funny story, too. It had to do with the dog track in Hialeah. Uhh, and some guys that had cracked in to...generating the winning trifecta tickets for every race. And then it would erase itself. It was a, you know, classic, uh, you know, little know "virus"...

SHERMAN: That sounds familiar, vaguely.


HOLLINGER: ...And uh, and so, you know, we in Florida, sort of started the computer crime criminalization process. Uh, and uh, Bill Nelson - they call him here, Bill, Bill Nelson, The Science Guy - uhm, you know, was our...was our...Representative...uh, he had...he's a Representative in the State legislature. And he brought a friend of his in, who you may have heard of, Don Parker, who has written, you know, probably some of the first books on computer crime. Ahm...annd Don Parker from Stanford Research Institute came in, and lec...lectured to the State legislature and then about 15 minutes later they had a computer crime statute. And so, we were the first state in the Union - believe it or not - and one of the...least developed in computers, but...we had our first statute. And it was largely due to this, you know, fear that, that uhh, that these teenage hackers were taking over the world. And uhm, and so we passed the statute. And then Nelson went on to Congress, ahh, to represent the State, and now he's our senior Senator. And so, he, you know, pushed through a lot of the computer crimes, uh, legislations, both here and our state, and also around the country, and then nationally, as well. So that's kind of an interesting little story, uh, there as, as far as how...states got these computer crimes statutes. Because they're...from a legal standpoint, they're very unusual, because they created these whole separate statutes. Instead of revising the law of property thefts, which is what usually happens when new technologies like automobiles and things like that come along, uh, they created this whole separate chapter of, of crime, uhm, which is, uh, legally, quite unusual. So...


HOLLINGER: Uhm...A colleague and I...wrote an article just on that issue, of, of sort of the evolution of computer crime...laws, uh, arguing that, you know, it was...partly, uhm, you know, of know a real problem, and, and partly it know, it was a witch hunt. Uhm, and, politicians were gettin' lots of publicity, you know, passing laws they knew nothing about, and, and they're (unintelligible) computer literate. Ahm, and so, and know, came to a head in 1983...with the movie War Games, and, and the uh, 414 hackers. Uhm, both of, both of those events took place in the Summer of 1983, and that's why we have federal computer crimes statutes.


SHERMAN: Yah, I've had to deal with similar stuff like that when they were going over this new craze over uh, "digital" - the new, the new, uh digital systems that they were putting up for communications and stuff like that. I also happen to run the web page called North Central Florida Area Scannist's Page, and uh, we'd up to that point had no problem getting things like Ten Codes, J-Codes, or whatever, and putting them up on the web, publishing them. And then this new thing comes along called "trunking", and then combine that with "digital", and the fact that now normal scanner's going to be able to, uh, intercept these digital commuications...and that was kind of a problem, uhm, because people were going to have to spend anywhere's from uh, oh, I dunno...what was it back then? to nine-hundred dollars for a card to add to their scanners so that they could intercept digital. And GRU was going around trying to tell everybody that 1) the trunking codes were "proprietary" - which is B.S. They were proprietary but they belonged to Motorola, and there's never been any instances of Motorola keeping the trunking codes from the public. And GRU tried to use that...they locked those things up in a safe and tried to keep them away from me and other people from publishing them and stuff like that. But that didn't work and it ended up getting published anyway.


And they tried to say that "digital" was the same as "encryption", and they tried to sell that to, to the local government like that - like digital was the SAME as encryption and THAT afforded police and fire rescue...

HOLLINGER: (chuckling)

SHERMAN (continuing): ...and everybody "privacy" - which it doesn't. The FCC defines "digital" as a "mode", like Morse code or voice.


SHERMAN: ...There's no...there's no..."privacy" in there.


SHERMAN: ...It's just another mode. Uh, the GRU lawyer, I believe he was a guy who was involved with real estate and not "Communications Law". He was going around telling the newspapers that uh, well...basically what I just told you, and of course it was all...false...just, to, to make shut everybody up, I guess. But they didn't like me (laughing) for a while, because I was challenging them on it.

HOLLINGER: You''re a Gainesville resident, as well?

SHERMAN: Yah. You know I understand how changes can cause new laws...

HOLLINGER: Lemme see what I can find in my notes and...uh, see if I can..get you anything...more specific...



HOLLINGER: ...and I'll get back to you on it.

SHERMAN: Yah. Okay, 'cuz well...I mean, honestly, I'll tell you this much. The BAD news of it that uhm, not Susan, but this husband, "Jeff", has been involved in causing me a lot of trouble over the years, uhm...


SHERMAN: ...And most recently, last year, was a hacking into my "EMWIN" server. "EMWIN" is a...well bacially, our server downloaded - it's a complete ground station. We downloaded a number of weather bulletins from a satellite and we redistribute them to the public for free...


SHERMAN: pagers, cellphones, email...stuff like that. One day I remoted in to it because it... Well, it was all up on top of the Shands Dental Science Building. There's a parking lot across the street, and they want three or whatever bucks to go park, and it's a pain in the butt that costs me money. So I installed, uh, some remote access software for it. I remoted in about 12:30 one night and, uh, there was Jeff...(scoff)... controlling my mouse!!


SHERMAN: ...He was going through DOS. He was going through logs...logs which contained email addresses, telephone numbers, names...


SHERMAN: ...That's "PII" information.


SHERMAN: ...And uh...

HOLLINGER: He never got...He never got the message, I guess. Did he?

SHERMAN: Well no... Huh? I guess not. That's why it shocked me when I saw these... these articles. I was like...the word "propensity"...came into my mind. Uhh...there this was, sittin, there in Google all this time, but, the ONLY way that you can find it is to type in his FULL name. It doesn't pop up any other way. And that was really odd. Susan doesn't even pop up for...that article doesn't pop up at all for her at all.

What I was referring to was that...Susan's name is in that article just as her husband's name is in there...and three other people, too. Her husband's full name would pull up this article when entered into Google. Her's...would not. It's as if she went in there some long time ago and manually fudged with Google to prevent that. And in typical psychopath fashion of self-concern and self-preservation and to hell with everybody else...even my companions...she did nothing for Jeff's. ...Until I wrote my blog, which called attention to it. It was pretty amazing. For a good while, you could enter "Jeffrey Donald Capehart" and the link to the Sun article archive popped up right at the top. I mean RIGHT at the very tippy top. THEN I started noticing some odd things in my IP logs. People were doing repetative keyword searches. They'd use the samae keyword search phrase over and over and over in Google, as if..."testing" something. Then the link began to disappear. But then, at night, it would come BACK. It was as if they could only control it for a short amount of time, like perhaps...12 hours at a time, and then it would pop back up in pole position after hours. ...Like, after 9pm, or after that. So when it appeared in pole position agian I made sure to videotape it so as to prove that it WAS appearing in first position. Then one day, after noting more repetative keyword phrases being suddenly disappeared altogether. It was very obvious that someone was definitely working on keyword search phrases to try and force them to stop working to pull that link up. In fact, it was downright scary to actually watch happen. And to this day, whenever Google gets in accused in the news for "manipulating" it's search results, and they DENY it...I shake my head, because (sigh)...I know better. ...Personally. I've watched it happen with my own eyes, almost live. I even have the logs to prove that it happened...from an outside, third party company which prevents me from being able to "affect" the log outcome beyond just deleting the account entirely and no more.


SHERMAN: Ahm...but... Yah, so, anyway, he...they...long story short, I ended up...I called the cops, and uh, UPD basically " Keystone Copped" the whole thing.


SHERMAN: They went to him and asked HIM all the information about the computers, and the server system, and stuff like that, 'cuz it belonged to the Gator Amateur Radio Club...


NOTE: GARC had computers of it's own, and someone named Ray Strubinger was then supposedly in control of all of them, and of their security. Jeff Cepehart had sufficient knowledge to run things but he was not then in charge of that. But Ray had graduated and was employed in some other state, and GARC hadn't yet transferred control to anyone else, yet. Ray was still designated as the one in charge at the time of the investigation, but from afar.

The AC-EMWIN server and equipment was located in the same fenced-in cage room as the GARC computers and equipment, but was not owned or operated by GARC. It was owned by me and Alachua County SKYWARN., actually Physical Plant Division, had allowed us both coincidental placement there.

Important to note is that the deal for installation was supposed to be made between myself/Alachua County SKYWARN, and PPD. I made that clear to Jeff on MANY occasions. I remember that. I remember bitching that I didn't want to end up in any situation where after some falling out or something, somebody else tried to take control, or something. (Heh!) YEARS later, after Jeff hacked into the machine and I called to cops to investigate, it became apparent that Jeff had not handled things in the manner that was assigned to him at the time. He had apparently misrepresented some things to PPD. Jeff apparently had decided that it would be easier to tell PPD that the equipment belonged to GARC and that it was with GARC that PPD would be working with. And Jeff did not tell me about it. PPD thought the deal was going through with GARC. And I was left to believe that ACS was the other party involved with PPD. When the Faculty Advisor of GARC gave me at first a hard time about getting the equipment back in 2009, and he tried to say that the deal had been between PPD and GARC, and that anything placed upon the roof or into UF locations became the automatic property of UF, defacto, I actually had to threaten a lawsuit to stop THAT. I had to tell him that I would demand ANY paperwork with my signature upon it whereupon I acknowledged any knowledge or acceptance of that idea, or that anyone had told me of it. I also demanded proof that Capehart had acted properly in all ways and that he had duly and properly let both parties know exactly what was going on at all times - with signed pieces of paper to prove it. I threatened to contact UF and complain that Jeff had acted in a manner inappropriate, signing false arrangements with the Physical Plant Division and making false statements of ownershipin the name of the Gator Amateur Radio Club, which did not own the equipment to be placed upon the rooftop of the Dental Science Building, and misrepresenting intentions and party affiliations. I threatened to file criminal charges against Jeff for that, and to sue the Gator Amateur Radio Club. That put a stop to that right quick. But it must have been very confusing for PPD, too, who had apparently been kept in the dark by Jeff just as I had been. Whenever they and I conversed on the phone, or exchanged emails, they must have thought that I was representing GARC, while I thought they realized that they were talking to Alachua County SKYWARN. Misinformation and misdirection is a typical Capehart M.O., used to help him get what he wants. ...And trouble often follows Jeff. Jeff Capehart is trouble. Sometimes when Jeff gets involved, a LOT of people suddenly become responsible for somethign that didn't work as he advertised, or you end up being the one person having to take total control of the project because no one else wanted to help you. He ALWAYS has a great idea and he'll give you a very diffficult time if you don't let him get his way. But half the time, you're left holding the bag for something that broke, or in some sort of trouble. Make any deals with him, and you'll quickly learn that you always have to have your management hat on. You MUST ask the deeper questions about every idea that Jeff comes up with. (This also assumes you know enough to ASK all of the proper questions.) Most of the time, I was always able to catch Jeff in leaving something important out. But not always. I got pretty good at it, though; and it pissed him off. He used to think me easy mark...and I actually was - way back in the "Before Time". Then I learned. He's very excellent at speaking very convincingly, and making even the experts think he knows what he's talking about and to carry through with an idea. But having the repeated experience with Jeff that to engage in some project with him is to often end up with an idea that never quite pans out in the end, and then left holding the bag, and actually BLAMED when somehing fails, AND by Jeff for carrying OUT his ideas (e.g., "I gave you the idea and I pushed to the point of being a royal pain in the ass, yes; but didn't exactly hold a GUN to your HEAD, you know!"...I've learned not to trust him to be completely responsible. And as I said, most of the time, I'd catch him. But not always. In the end, I canned him from his Asst. Coordinator status some two years before the hacking event (...For being irresponsible and for fighting me once too often - he just canont take "no" for an answer, often doing end runs around me to get his way. And if he couldn't get his way, he would deliberately attempt to sabotage my relationship with important associative contacts.) At a later point he was told to stay away from me or I would get a restraining order and call the police on him. He never took me seriously, and continually tried to reinitiate contact, ignoring my demand to stay away. No contact, this guy, means "Wait two weeks/three months until he 'cools down', and then try again." ...Typical "stalker" type of reaction to a very serious situation. ...Almost...almost like a an ex LOVER who had been told to stay away, now that I think about it. He'd just...keep popping up. Anyway, and at the time that he had hacked into the computer, he was under that rule. So the hacking was not by any consent in any way. As WELL...

It's also important to note that Jeff was NOT at the time on the admin of the computer system, and Dr. Garlitz placing him (and another man) in charge - where he was being investigated - was not appropriate and placed Jeff in a position then to control and destroy evidence, and to push the investigating cops in any wrong direction that he wanted.

SHERMAN: ...Uhm...and...he said that they didn't have any way of recording in the logs, so there's no way they can tell what IP address logged in at the time of the hacking. ...Which I think is B.S.. He told the officers, uhh, that he was not involved in the hacking...which was a lie. And then uhh...skipping some...I ended up getting kicked off the roof because they saw me as...complaining about Jeff, they saw ME as the problem. Not Jeff.

SHERMAN: The Faculty Advisor vouched for Jeff - because he volunteers a lot for public service in a lot of things, which is kinda...if you knew how MUCH public service this man volunteered for you'd think it was suspicious. But anyway, while I was up on the rooftop, removing the equipment - we were the only two that were allowed to be up on the rooftop because we were the only people who had taken the...Environmental Health & Safety-required training on climbing and rooftop safety. So I had to remove everything WITH...HIM...ALL ALONE. I'm up there, you know, however many stories up - with him, alone, taking down satellite dishes. And he's BRAGGING TO ME, about how it WAS him who'd hacked in. And I asked him "WHY?!", and he said "BECAUSE YOU PISSED ME OFF!!! You weren't DOING what I WANTED!" You know, and...


HOLLINGER: That's wild.

SHERMAN: ...Yah. And then uh, not only THAT, but he even CUT ME OFF to tell me four of the passwords that I'd rotated through over a two year period, uhh, on both the EMWIN software and on the


(Do you know what it's like to be standing near a railing on a rooftop some 163 feet up in the air while some guy is grinning at you while describing that stuff to you? ...To realize that all this time, some guy who had pretended to be your friend was actually your worst enemy and you never knew it?)

SHERMAN: And he said that he had gotten them...from...I dunno, it doesn't make sense to me. He said he got em from the Windows registry. But if I understand...I'm not too up on it, but I think... He must have used some other additional software to crack it because I think you can get can get the password, but it's encrypted. You have to unencrypt it.


SHERMAN: So, he must have used some sort of software in addition to getting it out of the Windows crack it. But uh, yah. So, UPD...I don't trust them any more. Uhm, I can't get them to talk to me publicly about, uh, what the Faculty Advisor said about Jeff, or me.

HOLLINGER: Who was the Faculty Advisor?


SHERMAN: Uh...Dr. Jay Garlitz. Uhm, he's uhm...with the Dental Science...people.


SHERMAN: He's a dentist. Uhm...but yah...and then, there was an incident with GPD before that where I'd filed a harassment complaint against two people who... (I never got to finish that sentence with him.)

HOLLINGER: ...Do you know "Stouffer?"

SHERMAN: "Stouffer..."

HOLLINGER: ...Like "Carl Stouffer? ...Mike Stouffer?"

SHERMAN: I know a Carl Stouffer. He's a ham operator.

HOLLINGER: Yah, I...I think his son, Mike...

SHERMAN: I haven't seen him in a while, though. Boy, it's been a long time.

HOLLINGER: He works on campus.

SHERMAN: Yah. But the down...the down side of all this is that Jeff...knows...anyone and everyone who is important. And, he works in a job...he works at the Office of Inspector General which...I'm starting to learn...if you wanna...if you're a hacker and you want to be in the most important place that matters, I think the Office of Inspector General - where IT security is happening right there - that's where you wanna be.



SHERMAN: Uhm, and then now I'm getting these paranoid thoughts like...if he works there, is this man reading my emails and stuff? HOLLINGER: Um-hmm.

SHERMAN: Does he have the capability to sniff that? And if so, how does he do it? Do they have to keep a....Does...OIG have that capability? Are they the people who investigate this kind of stuff?

HOLLINGER: Uh, is the Office of Inspector General...the State office? ...or is it...

SHERMAN: ...It's in Tigert Hall.

HOLLINGER: So it's the University office.

SHERMAN: It's the University office...the UF Office of Inspector General...


SHERMAN: Tigert Hall. And he also works, uh...he's tied with..."auditing"...auditing of something. I forget what it was. Yah. Some sort of auditing office.

HOLLINGER: ...And Jeff's last name was what?

SHERMAN: ...Capehart. ...C-A-P-E-H-A-R-T.


SHERMAN: Yah. ..."Jeffrey Donald Capehart". That's how I found it. I, I just...dec...decided to type in his full name instead of his regular name...


SHERMAN: ...I added "Donald" in the middle and there it was, right at the TOP!...first entry in Google. And I was like "WOW!" (sigh) (pause) I was like, wow, he just hacked into my computer, and then there's this article showing him doing the same thing...twenty years ago!...Twenty-somethin' years ago.


SHERMAN: So now I'm mad. I mean, it's like, I can't, I can't get him for the hacking of the server because...Keystone...I'm sorry, I mean UPD...screwed it up. (chuckling)

HOLLINGER: Yah well, they, they...executed a search warrant, I think, originally on, on the...

SHERMAN: ...on that? Yah, yah. I noticed that. UPD was the [unintelligible].

HOLLINGER: ...on, on the initial case. And they didn't, and they were nobody...nobody was trained. They just sort of unplugged everything and just yanked it out of the wall.

SHERMAN: (chuckling) Yah.

HOLLINGER: They didn't even know how to execute search warrants on computers.


SHERMAN: I recently set up sort...I've gotten smarter with computers and I've recently been setting up traps for Jeff, and I've been finding out some really weird things. I think he's got some sort of setup going where he's got remote access...I think he's actually giving me - without him knowing it - ahm, he's given me IP addresses that go to hospitals on campus, hospitals in Jacksonville, ah, there's, there's a computer in the University...I'm the uhm, Office of Emergency Management...that I think he's been remoting into to try and thwart IP blocks that I've got to keep him away from some of my web pages.


SHERMAN: ...And not that I care that he access my web pages, but those blocks were put up on purpose to try and sniff these things out from him because I've suspected that he's been watching, ahm, for a while. Ahm,'s, it's not the access to the web pages that is the problem. What I'm concerned about is that this...the way that this man is, is using other government, and State, and University systems, apparently, to access me. It's kinda scary that he's got that kind of power.

HOLLINGER: Do you know who Chuck Frasier is?

SHERMAN: ...Chuck Fra...uhh... That sounds very familiar.

HOLLINGER: He's Chief...ahhhh, ahh...IT Officer for the University.

SHERMAN: Uhhhh, which he probably knows. I guarantee, if he has, if anybody has anything to do with IT security, I'm sure Jeff is very...

(I was going to say "...very close with those kinds of people." But he'd cut me off, again.)

HOLLINGER: ...He's a Criminologist, and a good friend of mine; and he might be able to answer some of your questions about...who Capehart is.


HOLLINGER: ...And maybe I' some background...investigation of my own, just to see if I can figure much power he really has.

SHERMAN: Yah, I'm really scared of this guy. I mean, he's been bothering me for years. He's kinda of those...people who...

HOLLINGER: ...Kevin Mitnick?

SHERMAN: (pause) ...That sounds uh...he's a cop, isn't he?

HOLLINGER: Nah, Kevin Mitnick. is the "dark side hacker."

SHERMAN: Now that sounds very familiar...

HOLLINGER: He's...he's...he's the most infamous of the dark-side faction of hackers.

SHERMAN: Oh! You're comparing him to...! (laughing)


SHERMAN: Okay! (chuckling)

HOLLINGER: Which reminds me... Because, you know, Kevin used to get pissed at people, and he'd, and he' know...


...ruin, ruin their credit histories and, you know and...shut...

SHERMAN: Well, he wouldn't go that far, but...

HOLLINGER: ...shut down their cell phones, and, you all sorts of malicious kind of actions.


SHERMAN: He's not gone that far, but he's gone as far as to make people in Emergency Management scared of me, and the Weather Service scared of me... I'm...I, I founded a program called "Alachua County SKYWARN", uh, that's just, basically, it's "storm spotters". You look up. You see something. You, you report it. You pick up a cellphone. That's basically it. And uh, he made...he, he made some people in Emergency Management scared of me. He made some people in the Weather Service scared of me. If I don't do what Jeff wants, Jeff gets angry...and he tries to do end runs around me and


You know, he'll go to people he doesn't even know. ...People he knows are my friends, and he'll try to convince them to convince me of the errors of my ways, and stuff. It's just...weird. He'll write then emails and stuff, and he doesn't even know them. He's written emails to my best friends...he doesn't even know them...and, and, and trying to convince my friends to send me these emails back from Jeff, and, they'll be like "Do you know who this guy is? It's like, this is weird. He's trying to convince me to...It sounds like he's trying to convince me that you're stupid or something." You know? I mean uh...and, ahm, he's done this with people in Emergency Management and stuff and he's very convincing. He's got a very...ah...charismatic kind of personality; and everybody believes him. He's friends with uhh...with people in fire/rescue, emergency management, uhh UF uhh IT security, uh, ah, anybody who is important, he knows. And, I don't know...I've uh, he's already...convinced a cop in GPD that I was picking on some people, and that cop actually sabotaged a, a, a harassment case that I had filed.


SHERMAN: At the same time, Jeff is telling me personal...not personal, but...private details about my case. You know...uh, uh, uhhh...details he shouldn't know about the case. Like "Did you talk to Dave Donnelly? Did you to Chief May? Did you say this about Chief May, or this about Chie...Dave Donnelly? Did you...did you write a spread uh...the officer a stack of emails this thick? Did they say this? Did they say that? And I'm like, "Jeff! Where are you getting this information from?


SHERMAN: Turns out, the cop was cooperating with the people that I had filed the complaint against. ...And those people were talking to Jeff. ...And Jeff's coming back to me...and rather than going to IAD and complaining about it...telling them about it, he's using...he's hitting me with it, using it like some sort of a torture tool.


SHERMAN: You know, I mean, that's the way this guy is. Yah, so I guess "Mitnick" in a way; but not as...violent as in...hacking and, you know, cutting off my cellphones. But no, but... (breath) I mean yah...he uses...he, he, he, he, he's into torturing me.


SHERMAN: I am inferior, and he likes to try and prove that I'm...I'm stupid and not near as smart as him. But recently, I've been putting these, uh, IP blocks up just to sort of torture him and, and, but mostly to try and pull out (breath) these IP addresses that I've been gathering from him, and I, I pulled up about forty of 'em or so, and it's kinda scary. I, I, I, I'm wondering if he's actually mapping out for me the entire Office of Inspector General. I mean, when I blocked out one IP address and he goes to the next, he going to the next...desk...down? Is he borrowing a friend's desk? Do they know about it? (breath) I'm seeing all sorts of weird stuff like this and I was just thinking I, I need to go to the State Attorney's Office about it or something...or somebody. But I don't want to go to UPD because they'll screw it up. I don't want to go to GPD because they, they don't take it seriously.


SHERMAN: ...And...I dunno. (sigh) So I'm...

HOLLINGER: Lemme ask around...uhm...


HOLLINGER: ...with my friend, ahm, Frasier, because...he's the [Vice President up here?] who's supposed to be in charge of...of the security of, of the information at the University and, if he...he might know something.

SHERMAN: I have logs, too... Uhh, I, I have installed counters on all of my web pages and...I remind you...I you've described this to's not the web page access that I'm concerned about. It's just...I'm trying to find out why is this guy trying to HIDE...(breath)...his...searches of my web pages by (using alternate IPs?)...

( He interrupted me again and missed the last three words. )

HOLLINGER: Have you ever read the book Take Down?

SHERMAN: What is that? Um-umm.


HOLLINGER: Welll...when Mitnick...uh, when Kevin Mitnick was...uhm, was cracking into computers at the University of California, uhhh, there was the astronomy department, and there was a graduate student named "Shugotomi" [I think he means Tsutomu Shimomura. -Todd] who, who would set up exactly the same kind of trap...that eventually brought down Kevin Mitnick.


HOLLINGER: It's a very similar kind of story.

SHERMAN: ...His pride is gonna bring him down.

HOLLINGER: Yah. Well, I've gotta run...

SHERMAN: Okay. I didn't mean to hold you.

HOLLINGER: ...but uh, I'll...and, and...your name again is?...

SHERMAN: "Todd." "T-O-D-D," and the last name is "Sherman"..."S-H-E-R-M-A-N." ...Like the tank that was supposed to go crashing into the waves in World War 2 but they leaked, I'm told...severely. (laughing)

HOLLINGER: Yah. ...Okay, well I will, uh, see what I can find out, Todd...

SHERMAN: Alright.

HOLLINGER: ...and get back to you.

SHERMAN: Okay, well I appreciate it, Richard. Thanks very much.

HOLLINGER: Good talkin' to yuh.

SHERMAN: Alright, you take care.


SHERMAN: Alright. Bye.


[Back to Stormspotter Todd's Blog: 'Where Did Todd Go?...On Prof. Richard Hollinger']


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