From: Jeff Capehart
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 3:29 PM
To: Todd L. Sherman / KB4MHH
Subject: the flirting thing with Susan

OK -- points taken.  I was trying to establish a time-line.  A point of
reference if you will.  This exercise seems vaguely familiar like we tried 
this once before.

On Mon, 2 Apr 2007, Todd L. Sherman / KB4MHH wrote:

> What'd MIKE have to do with anything?  Mike never harassed me like all the
> rest of you did.  Mike thought you guys knew what you were talking about.
> Then when he started to realize what the fuck you were doing, he completely
> disassociated with ham radio.  HE got tired of all the bullshit.

Mike wouldn't ever say anything about the situation but he did imply that 
people were being too hard on you, especially for a volunteer group.  And 
just what was it that he started to realize that we were doing that caused 
him to disassociate with ham radio?

> *** wasn't joking.  ***'s jaw was dropped and he was completely serious when
> he mentioned it to me.
> So was *** ***.
> ***, too.  (Pre-asshole days; but not pre-idiot days.)
> ***, too.
> And ***.
> And ***.
> And ***.

Was this something we discussed only over the phone?  Do you recall when 
this was happening?  2002?  2003?  Pre-EMWIN, Post-EMWIN ?

And if I were to talk to anyone about this to get their side of the story, 
would they even know what I was talking about??  (Except of course for 
John since he is passed on unless you meant John Hughes.)

> Awful lot of people seeing the same thing.  It was pissing me off because I
> did NOT like Susan at ALL and her touchy-feely crap was not just pissing me
> off but making everyone think *I* was flirting with your wife.  I HATE how
> people do that!  I told you about this over and over and you ignored me.
> Then when you finally told her you didn't exactly handle it appropriately
> and it pissed her off and set her off on her "I'm gonna show HIM how much I
> really like him" attitude.  That was DIRECTLY your fault, dude.

I don't see how laying blame changes anything.  It seems like you are 
desperately trying to blame someone else rather than considering how much 
of this was a self-inflicted wound.

I did not have the details, nor did I have the personal experience of 
which you speak.  How would I possibly be able to explain something to 
Susan to get her to stop with just generic statements from you?  I didn't 
even know what it was she was doing?  Was she going out on dates with you? 
Was she sitting next to you, closely, making eyes, and rubbing up against 
you?  Was she batting her eyes and making gushing googly giddy looks at 
you?   Those are the types of things that other people notice.

> Susan didn't take it well because you wren't responsible in how you
> presented it to her.  A number of people came to me not JOKING but seriously
> warning me that she was your wife.  Ed wasn't joking.  Steve wasn't joking.
> Steve was looking at Susan and how she was acting with me and he was
> completely freaked out.

And were they saying this in private, in person, on the phone, in email, 
on the air, or what?  Again, I have no recollection of these things.  They 
didn't come to *ME*, only *YOU* came to me about it.

> I repeatedly told you to impress upon her how multiple people were taking
> her flirtations wrong and they were accusing ME of doing the flirting.
> Instead, you went to Susan and put it like a joke.  I remember asking you
> how you put it to her once.  You never answered.  I asked you if you put it
> to her in a serious manner or if you put it to her more in the manner "guess
> what...Todd thinks you like him" and you never denied it.  That told me that
> you must have put it to her JUST like that.  Susan wouldn't get mad at me if
> she knew multiple people were actually rebuking me.  She would have gotten
> upset if you had put it to her in the manner that I thought she liked me,
> though.

Well, how would it have gone for you if you had sat down with her and with 
me and discussed how uncomfortable it made you feel, or how much negative 
feedback you were getting from other club members?  Then at least you 
could have put the first-hand knowledge in proper perspective.

I was probably the least knowledgeable person to be the one to have that 
type of discussion with Susan.  It is not the sort of thing I would be 
able to get across without intimate knowledge of the situation, which I 
did not have the first hand knowledge, and thus was unable to communicate 
effectively the specific problem you were experiencing.

> There was no reason for Susan to react the way she did with me unless it was
> put to her in a manner that sounded like I was being condescending towards
> her and you have a habit of doing things like that when you talk to her.
> I wanted you to present it to her in a serious manner, but you were afraid
> to put it to her that way because you were afraid of how she would BE with
> you.  So you chose to put it to her jokingly, and in a manner that was
> humiliating to her, and in a manner that made it seem like I was insulting
> her.
> I KNOW you, Jeff.  You covered your ass when you spoke with her about it.

I don't see what I would have been covering.  If you say I didn't yell at 
her, or threaten her, or attack her, or challenge her, well yes, I did 
none of those things.

What you didn't see was that I didn't take the complaints from you 
seriously and I didn't present them to her seriously and she made the 
determination that you were just not used to being around women and 
couldn't deal well with other people who are giving you a hard time and a 
good ribbing.  It was more like she thought that YOU thought that she 
liked you and this was a way of flattering yourself or something.  I don't 


From: Todd L. Sherman / KB4MHH
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 12:04 AM
To: 'Jeff Capehart'
Subject: RE: the flirting thing with Susan

Sorry, Jeff but you permanently disallowed yourself from ever being able to
justify yourself over the Susan flirting thing because you made a conscious
decision to deliberately make SURE you never put anything regarding it to
email and you only discussed it in person because you didn't want to give
Susan anything to make your life miserable with.  Since your memory seems to
fast disappear without the presence of emails, you will never be able to
properly remember what happened, and you will always accuse me of making
things up.

This is as much as I will talk about this subject.

I suppose you could always go to Susan and ask HER how you actually put the
situation to her.  I'm sure she remembers EXACTLY how you put it to her.  And
I'm willing to bet, it will likely fall EXACTLY along the lines I thought.
Instead of impressing upon her the seriousness, you chose to put it in the form
of a joke about how Todd "thinks you LIKE him," which then put her on a rampage
against me for a good long time.


From: Jeff Capehart
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 9:48 AM
To: Todd L. Sherman / KB4MHH
Subject: RE: the flirting thing with Susan

How about just a time-frame for when this happened?  I don't need an exact 
date, or even an exact month, just a reference such as "at the GARS 
meeting when the train guy came out"  or, sometime between June and 
December 2003 or something like that.

Was it all at a single meeting, or was it over the course of multiple GARS 
meetings?  The only time frame I have is that it must have been before 
2004 and after 2000.


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